Raptors
Jason Richardson
Posts: 1,337
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Post by Raptors on Nov 1, 2007 20:34:16 GMT -5
This won't effect any decision i make really. It will have a small impact, but not a huge one.
I wanna get everyones thoughts on what they think i should be able to acquire if i do deal him.
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Post by danhiggins on Nov 1, 2007 21:09:00 GMT -5
It depends. Other teams will value Jones at various levels. For example, I don't put a premium on him that other teams do. That doesn't mean he isn't worth much, but rather different teams see him as worthy of different prices. Of course, the only value you should be worried about is your own. If someone else thinks your price is too high remember they have a real reason why they want your price to come down. They have a vested interest in that. Always remember that.
The best thing you can do is shop him around. That will give you the best idea of what the "market" is. Just like Joe posted though, vets aren't commanding the best prices lately. It seems like everyone is looking for the next 19 year old prospect. Don't take the first offer from anyone and make sure you cover all your options. Don't be afraid to hold on to him if you don't like a deal. You're NEVER obligated to deal your own dudes and it is NEVER over until the Lakers types "done" under your completed trade thread. I've pissed off plenty of people with my opinion on those two topics, but it is true. If others don't like it, tough. Having said that, you don't want to piss everyone off. I'm simply saying, never feel "pushed", "bullied" or "intimidated" into a deal that you don't like.
Another thing I'll say is don't think that because you're the new GM that you have to deal everyone off right away and "rebuild." You don't have to do that. I came into the Knicks job and thought I did. I sold off some good players that went on to win championships on other teams. Could I have won a title with them? No way in hell, but many of those players were good and I could have been a better team had I not made the moves I made. Just don't feel like you have to "rebuild" without the guys already on your roster. Maybe you will, maybe you won't, but you don't HAVE to trade away your team to start over.
Lastly, if you want to talk about specific deals, do it via PM with a team you trust. Remember, they're in it to win too. They have a vested interest too.
Now having said all this, I realize you're not a rookie GM. I also realize your question was much more narrow than the answer I gave you. I hope you don't take offense at my ramblings. I have all of ZERO rings to justify my comments so take them all with a grain of salt. I just like people thinking I know what the hell I'm talking about. I'm training for a career as an officer in the military I guess. ;D
Hope that helps introducing you to the league.
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Post by whiskeypete on Nov 1, 2007 22:03:16 GMT -5
knicks is right, you've got to decide the value of a player for yourself and then work the trade market to receive your value. as you'll find everyone values their players differently. some want the world for an aging vet and some will trade off anyone. you have to figure out were you lie on that scale
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Post by chrisdaphish on Nov 1, 2007 23:46:16 GMT -5
just follow your heart. Who cares if everyoen thinks u made a bad trade, if u are happy with it, then thats a perefectly good reason to trade.  |
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Post by duncanonu on Nov 2, 2007 0:57:38 GMT -5
It all depends on what your plan is. Are you trying to shed payroll to be a player in Free Agency while improving your draft pick? Or are you thinking you can get more help than what he supplies for you now? I would guess your looking future, but I am constantly amazed how many teams make a trade for a good vet, when they arent even close to winning anything. In the process they usually give up what few assets they had, and then the veteran declines 2 years later and they have absolutely zero assets anyone wants. On the other hand if you deal Jones for picks from the team getting Jones, you have to understand those picks instantly go down in value once Jones puts on their uniform. Their is a time to buy and a time to sell. Of course a laterall move that helps you win more while not getting older is always nice. Basically, we would need more information and specifics on a trade in order to give you any real advice with any merit.
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Raptors
Jason Richardson
Posts: 1,337
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Post by Raptors on Nov 2, 2007 9:55:57 GMT -5
It all depends on what your plan is. Are you trying to shed payroll to be a player in Free Agency while improving your draft pick? Or are you thinking you can get more help than what he supplies for you now? I would guess your looking future, but I am constantly amazed how many teams make a trade for a good vet, when they arent even close to winning anything. In the process they usually give up what few assets they had, and then the veteran declines 2 years later and they have absolutely zero assets anyone wants. On the other hand if you deal Jones for picks from the team getting Jones, you have to understand those picks instantly go down in value once Jones puts on their uniform. Their is a time to buy and a time to sell. Of course a laterall move that helps you win more while not getting older is always nice. Basically, we would need more information and specifics on a trade in order to give you any real advice with any merit. I think if i did say anything about the actual deal that i have in place, which i think is really good value for him, considering nobody else is willing to give anything near what he did, would be wrong. Anyhow, I've talked around most of the league, I'm assuming all interested buyers have spoken up and this offer that i have now is too hard to turn down atm. The pieces im being dealt, look like they could have a nice impact down the road, and thats my plan atm. |
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Post by duncanonu on Nov 2, 2007 12:00:08 GMT -5
Yep, thats the tricky part about getting advice. Either it's general and not accurate or you reveal too much.
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Post by JoeW on Nov 2, 2007 16:16:04 GMT -5
just to clarify something the Knicks said, a deal is actually final once you post it in the completed thread. If it has been posted by you then you can't just delete it like its never been there. now if the deal posted doesn't work for some reason then you are free to back out if you want. It doesn't have to say done to be official.
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Post by Hornets on Nov 2, 2007 17:09:21 GMT -5
I think if i did say anything about the actual deal that i have in place, which i think is really good value for him, considering nobody else is willing to give anything near what he did, would be wrong. well, IMO that's the worst decision you could make. Just deal him below value cause that's the best offer you got so far. Most veteran GMs would never do that. And here's the tricky part. Every player not only has a value but also a TIME to be traded. You'll discover that the beginning of the season is a bad time for trades. Most GMs like their team, thinks it has a chance to do something. Down the road, towards midseason, you will find a few GMs more desperate, either - to get some missing piece since they feel to be close (1) - or to sell off veterans from a team that's not working as planned (2) - or to unload too many medium skilled guys for one better (3) (1) don't expect much value from them except for future picks or unproven young guys, they won't trade anyone that can help them or you now (2) will need Jones for the future, but since the have the future in mind you won't get future assets from them (3) that could be something for you, but remember one thing: STARS WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS. Not depth. Without two, maybe even 3 stars - in the 20-30ppg category with very good defense - you won't ever be a true contender Selling guys at the wrong time will get you less value ... and in my opinion there's just instance where you should take the best offer regardless: if you have a player that won't help you anytime soon (like a 35yr old when you're 3 seasons away from contentio) but makes a LOT of money (in the 15-25 mill range) which would block your salary cap plans if you keep him. So if you watch sim leagues closely, you will find out: good & winning programs aquire stars below market value ... and bad, losing programs sell stars below market value (btw, a 34yr old, no matter how good, is no star anymore, he is an "aging star" and can be sold for ANY price) Final word: Since I'm running project 30 + I have ZERO interest in guys below 30 currently, so feel free you get my opinion if you want ... |
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Pacers
Jason Richardson
Posts: 1,439
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Post by Pacers on Nov 2, 2007 22:42:52 GMT -5
The Hornets make some real good points.
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Raptors
Jason Richardson
Posts: 1,337
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Post by Raptors on Nov 3, 2007 16:57:19 GMT -5
I think if i did say anything about the actual deal that i have in place, which i think is really good value for him, considering nobody else is willing to give anything near what he did, would be wrong. well, IMO that's the worst decision you could make. Just deal him below value cause that's the best offer you got so far. Most veteran GMs would never do that. And here's the tricky part. Every player not only has a value but also a TIME to be traded. You'll discover that the beginning of the season is a bad time for trades. Most GMs like their team, thinks it has a chance to do something. Down the road, towards midseason, you will find a few GMs more desperate, either - to get some missing piece since they feel to be close (1) - or to sell off veterans from a team that's not working as planned (2) - or to unload too many medium skilled guys for one better (3) (1) don't expect much value from them except for future picks or unproven young guys, they won't trade anyone that can help them or you now (2) will need Jones for the future, but since the have the future in mind you won't get future assets from them (3) that could be something for you, but remember one thing: STARS WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS. Not depth. Without two, maybe even 3 stars - in the 20-30ppg category with very good defense - you won't ever be a true contender Selling guys at the wrong time will get you less value ... and in my opinion there's just instance where you should take the best offer regardless: if you have a player that won't help you anytime soon (like a 35yr old when you're 3 seasons away from contentio) but makes a LOT of money (in the 15-25 mill range) which would block your salary cap plans if you keep him. So if you watch sim leagues closely, you will find out: good & winning programs aquire stars below market value ... and bad, losing programs sell stars below market value (btw, a 34yr old, no matter how good, is no star anymore, he is an "aging star" and can be sold for ANY price) Final word: Since I'm running project 30 + I have ZERO interest in guys below 30 currently, so feel free you get my opinion if you want ... The point about teams dealing more towards the end (cause they need that one piece) is very true. I don't think anyone is going to give me more then 3 1st's, which i could be getting right now. So I'm still debating whether i should do anything with him right now. |
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Post by duncanonu on Nov 3, 2007 17:08:39 GMT -5
One last piece of advice is that 1st's in this League range from great to crap. For instance, the 2 picks I just traded for are more than likely going to be crap (Knicks and Cavs) . But that is also why all I sent for them was 3 players that aren't going to help my teams situation. One good 1st is always better than 4 playoff teams 1st's. Of course you also have to factor in what year draft it is and who will be available. But, unlike most Leagues, your not going to get much here mid to late in the 1st round, especially in 2000. Hope that helps.
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Post by danhiggins on Nov 3, 2007 21:36:04 GMT -5
The Bucks are dead on here. Usually a pick outside of the lottery (and IN the lottery with the 2000 draft) aren't going to be any better than an older guy that you can pick up after FA for the league minimum. FA pick ups are cheaper and the contracts are shorter by 3 years. Usually a rookie after the lotto is good for 1.5-2.5 mil against the cap for 4 years and that's it. Keep that in mind. So really, 3 crappy picks for Jones isn't as good as 3 league minimum players. Would you trade Eddie Jones for Raul Thorpe, Eric Williams, and Ira Newble? I sure wouldn't, but you may as well if you trade good players for crappy picks. The Bucks is 100% correct (as usual) with his last post.
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Raptors
Jason Richardson
Posts: 1,337
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Post by Raptors on Nov 3, 2007 23:43:05 GMT -5
Well hes not moving...for now...and probably sticking around since hes not doing much to win by himself.
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